raid10??

Tags:

hi all,

i'm setting up a new server and i basically have 4 disks (+2 for back-up
storage), easiest would be to go for the good old raid5 and suffer the
performance loss, but i have some time left to do some benchmarking and
i want to give raid10 a try.

i don't seem to be able to find much resources on google about setting
up raid 10 in debian (anybody has some experience???)
and i also came accross the idea of raid1 with lvm setup..is this an option?

just wandering if somebody has some thoughts and pointers

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raid10??

On 28.01.08 15:03, randall wrote:
> i'm setting up a new server and i basically have 4 disks (+2 for back-up
> storage), easiest would be to go for the good old raid5 and suffer the
> performance loss, but i have some time left to do some benchmarking and
> i want to give raid10 a try.
>
> i don't seem to be able to find much resources on google about setting
> up raid 10 in debian (anybody has some experience???)
> and i also came accross the idea of raid1 with lvm setup..is this an option?
>
>
> just wandering if somebody has some thoughts and pointers

I currently run raid0 over raid1. Someone mentioned that I'm lucky because
due to some problem this configuration may fail. Well, I'm lucky yet...

I noticed there is raid10 driver in kernel, but I haven't looked carefully
over that yet. Currently I have 2 types of disks (2 disks of each) connected
through 2 SATA cards (each card has one disk of one type and one disk of
another type), mirroring one disk of one type on one cars with one disk of
another type on another card, so if one of cards or both disks of one type
fail, I'm still not loosing any data... I would like to have raid10 with the
same configuration.

--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
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to take effect. [OK]

--

raid10??

On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 04:13:10PM +0100, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
>
> I currently run raid0 over raid1. Someone mentioned that I'm lucky because
> due to some problem this configuration may fail. Well, I'm lucky yet...
>
This makes no sense to me. Why not just pair off the disks in raid1
arrays and then make them all PVs in an LVM setup?

Regards,

-Roberto

--
Roberto C. Sánchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com

raid10??

> On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 04:13:10PM +0100, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
> >
> > I currently run raid0 over raid1. Someone mentioned that I'm lucky because
> > due to some problem this configuration may fail. Well, I'm lucky yet...

On 28.01.08 11:23, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> This makes no sense to me. Why not just pair off the disks in raid1
> arrays and then make them all PVs in an LVM setup?

because I wanted to skip the LVM part. I have no need for LVM yet...
--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
It's now safe to throw off your computer.

--

raid10??

Le Monday 28 January 2008 17:30:05 Matus UHLAR - fantomas, vous avez écrit :
> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 04:13:10PM +0100, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
> > > I currently run raid0 over raid1. Someone mentioned that I'm lucky
> > > because due to some problem this configuration may fail. Well, I'm
> > > lucky yet...
>
> On 28.01.08 11:23, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > This makes no sense to me. Why not just pair off the disks in raid1
> > arrays and then make them all PVs in an LVM setup?
>
> because I wanted to skip the LVM part. I have no need for LVM yet...

But LVM stripping (lvcreate -i) will add you the RAID0 part of your RAID10 !
=>lvm stripping across two raid1 arrays.

raid10??

Gilles Mocellin wrote:
> Le Monday 28 January 2008 17:30:05 Matus UHLAR - fantomas, vous avez écrit :
>>> On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 04:13:10PM +0100, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
>>>> I currently run raid0 over raid1. Someone mentioned that I'm lucky
>>>> because due to some problem this configuration may fail. Well, I'm
>>>> lucky yet...
>> On 28.01.08 11:23, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>>> This makes no sense to me. Why not just pair off the disks in raid1
>>> arrays and then make them all PVs in an LVM setup?
>> because I wanted to skip the LVM part. I have no need for LVM yet...
>
> But LVM stripping (lvcreate -i) will add you the RAID0 part of your RAID10 !
> =>lvm stripping across two raid1 arrays.

i have just installed with the debian installer making 2 x raid1 and
then glueing them together with LVM
256 MB /boot raid 1 (on all 4 disks)
10 GB /root raid1 + lvm
1 GB /swap raid1 + lvm
500 GB unused raid1 + lvm

(i wasn't very sure what to do about the swap but i think this means
slower but securer in a case of crashing)

till so far the performance feels pretty snappy but i still have to do
some benchmarking and remove a few random disks to see what happens.

anybody ever reliably used a set up like this in production?

--

raid10??

On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 05:23:25AM +0100, randall wrote:
>
> i have just installed with the debian installer making 2 x raid1 and
> then glueing them together with LVM
> 256 MB /boot raid 1 (on all 4 disks)
> 10 GB /root raid1 + lvm
> 1 GB /swap raid1 + lvm
> 500 GB unused raid1 + lvm
>
> (i wasn't very sure what to do about the swap but i think this means
> slower but securer in a case of crashing)
>
> till so far the performance feels pretty snappy but i still have to do
> some benchmarking and remove a few random disks to see what happens.
>
> anybody ever reliably used a set up like this in production?
>
I run a similar setup on many production servers. On one, for example,
I have four disks. I create two RAID1 arrays, /dev/md0 and /dev/md1.
Then I create a LVM volume group, adding both /dev/md0 and /dev/md1 as
physical volumes. Then I create whatever logical volumes I want. It
works very well.

Regards,

-Roberto

--
Roberto C. Sánchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com

raid10??

With mdadm you can make RAID10, is there a problem here I just don't see?

my mdadm.conf has this for one server with 4 500GB disks, md0 is 1 TB.

ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid10 num-devices=4
UUID=9fbd86dc:518e4bf3:c0ae5f04:5c65c500

Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 05:23:25AM +0100, randall wrote:
>
>> i have just installed with the debian installer making 2 x raid1 and
>> then glueing them together with LVM
>> 256 MB /boot raid 1 (on all 4 disks)
>> 10 GB /root raid1 + lvm
>> 1 GB /swap raid1 + lvm
>> 500 GB unused raid1 + lvm
>>
>> (i wasn't very sure what to do about the swap but i think this means
>> slower but securer in a case of crashing)
>>
>> till so far the performance feels pretty snappy but i still have to do
>> some benchmarking and remove a few random disks to see what happens.
>>
>> anybody ever reliably used a set up like this in production?
>>
>>
> I run a similar setup on many production servers. On one, for example,
> I have four disks. I create two RAID1 arrays, /dev/md0 and /dev/md1.
> Then I create a LVM volume group, adding both /dev/md0 and /dev/md1 as
> physical volumes. Then I create whatever logical volumes I want. It
> works very well.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>
>

--
Hector Gonzalez

http://www.genac.org

--

raid10??

Héctor González wrote:
> With mdadm you can make RAID10, is there a problem here I just don't see?
>
> my mdadm.conf has this for one server with 4 500GB disks, md0 is 1 TB.
>
> ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid10 num-devices=4
> UUID=9fbd86dc:518e4bf3:c0ae5f04:5c65c500
>
>
> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 05:23:25AM +0100, randall wrote:
>>
>>> i have just installed with the debian installer making 2 x raid1 and
>>> then glueing them together with LVM
>>> 256 MB /boot raid 1 (on all 4 disks)
>>> 10 GB /root raid1 + lvm
>>> 1 GB /swap raid1 + lvm
>>> 500 GB unused raid1 + lvm
>>>
>>> (i wasn't very sure what to do about the swap but i think this means
>>> slower but securer in a case of crashing)
>>>
>>> till so far the performance feels pretty snappy but i still have to do
>>> some benchmarking and remove a few random disks to see what happens.
>>>
>>> anybody ever reliably used a set up like this in production?
>>>
>>>
>> I run a similar setup on many production servers. On one, for example,
>> I have four disks. I create two RAID1 arrays, /dev/md0 and /dev/md1.
>> Then I create a LVM volume group, adding both /dev/md0 and /dev/md1 as
>> physical volumes. Then I create whatever logical volumes I want. It
>> works very well.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Roberto
>>
>>
>
>
no problem, just some time left to try out different options ;)

and i was just about to try that way, any pointers about the install you
are willing to share?

should be something as follows i figured, can you include /boot this way?

sfdisk -d /dev/hda | sfdisk /dev/hdb etc......

mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sd[ab]1
mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sd[cd]1
mdadm --create /dev/md2 --level=0 --raid-devices=2 /dev/md[01]

--

raid10??

randall wrote:
> Héctor González wrote:
>
>> With mdadm you can make RAID10, is there a problem here I just don't see?
>>
>> my mdadm.conf has this for one server with 4 500GB disks, md0 is 1 TB.
>>
>> ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid10 num-devices=4
>> UUID=9fbd86dc:518e4bf3:c0ae5f04:5c65c500
>>
>>
>> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 05:23:25AM +0100, randall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> i have just installed with the debian installer making 2 x raid1 and
>>>> then glueing them together with LVM
>>>> 256 MB /boot raid 1 (on all 4 disks)
>>>> 10 GB /root raid1 + lvm
>>>> 1 GB /swap raid1 + lvm
>>>> 500 GB unused raid1 + lvm
>>>>
>>>> (i wasn't very sure what to do about the swap but i think this means
>>>> slower but securer in a case of crashing)
>>>>
>>>> till so far the performance feels pretty snappy but i still have to do
>>>> some benchmarking and remove a few random disks to see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> anybody ever reliably used a set up like this in production?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I run a similar setup on many production servers. On one, for example,
>>> I have four disks. I create two RAID1 arrays, /dev/md0 and /dev/md1.
>>> Then I create a LVM volume group, adding both /dev/md0 and /dev/md1 as
>>> physical volumes. Then I create whatever logical volumes I want. It
>>> works very well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Roberto
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> no problem, just some time left to try out different options ;)
>
> and i was just about to try that way, any pointers about the install you
> are willing to share?
>
> should be something as follows i figured, can you include /boot this way?
>
> sfdisk -d /dev/hda | sfdisk /dev/hdb etc......
>
> mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sd[ab]1
> mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sd[cd]1
> mdadm --create /dev/md2 --level=0 --raid-devices=2 /dev/md[01]
>
>
>
>
Well, if memory doesn't fail, I just did something like:

mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=raid10 --raid-devices=4 /dev/sd[bcde]1

I don't boot currently from that raid, but it should work fine, if you
told the mdadm package to include boot raid support.

--
Hector Gonzalez

http://www.genac.org

--

raid10??

also sprach Héctor González [2008.01.30.0600 +1100]:
> Well, if memory doesn't fail, I just did something like:
>
> mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=raid10 --raid-devices=4 /dev/sd[bcde]1

This has the advantage that access to the disk only has to traverse
the md layer once. It works, I use it almost everywhere.

--
.''`. martin f. krafft
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

die wahrheit ist selten
auf seiten der wahrscheinlichkeit.
-- heinrich v. kleist

raid10??

Sorry forgot the list ;-)

martin f krafft schrieb:
> also sprach Héctor González [2008.01.30.0600 +1100]:
>
>> Well, if memory doesn't fail, I just did something like:
>>
>> mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=raid10 --raid-devices=4 /dev/sd[bcde]1
>>
>
> This has the advantage that access to the disk only has to traverse
> the md layer once. It works, I use it almost everywhere.
>
>

Is this also possible while debian installation? Can one boot from this
raid?

--

raid10??

also sprach Andre Keller [2008.01.30.1923 +1100]:
> Sorry forgot the list ;-)

Please don't Cc people when replying to lists.

> Is this also possible while debian installation? Can one boot from this
> raid?

Not yet, at least not with the Debian installer.

--
.''`. martin f. krafft
: :' : proud Debian developer, author, administrator, and user
`. `'` http://people.debian.org/~madduck - http://debiansystem.info
`- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing systems

"... and so he killed Miguel in a rit of fealous jage."
-- inspector clouseau

raid10??

Héctor González wrote:
> randall wrote:
>> Héctor González wrote:
>>
>>> With mdadm you can make RAID10, is there a problem here I just don't see?
>>>
>>> my mdadm.conf has this for one server with 4 500GB disks, md0 is 1 TB.
>>>
>>> ARRAY /dev/md0 level=raid10 num-devices=4
>>> UUID=9fbd86dc:518e4bf3:c0ae5f04:5c65c500
>>>
>>>
>>> Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 05:23:25AM +0100, randall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> i have just installed with the debian installer making 2 x raid1 and
>>>>> then glueing them together with LVM
>>>>> 256 MB /boot raid 1 (on all 4 disks)
>>>>> 10 GB /root raid1 + lvm
>>>>> 1 GB /swap raid1 + lvm
>>>>> 500 GB unused raid1 + lvm
>>>>>
>>>>> (i wasn't very sure what to do about the swap but i think this means
>>>>> slower but securer in a case of crashing)
>>>>>
>>>>> till so far the performance feels pretty snappy but i still have to do
>>>>> some benchmarking and remove a few random disks to see what happens.
>>>>>
>>>>> anybody ever reliably used a set up like this in production?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I run a similar setup on many production servers. On one, for example,
>>>> I have four disks. I create two RAID1 arrays, /dev/md0 and /dev/md1.
>>>> Then I create a LVM volume group, adding both /dev/md0 and /dev/md1 as
>>>> physical volumes. Then I create whatever logical volumes I want. It
>>>> works very well.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> -Roberto
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> no problem, just some time left to try out different options ;)
>>
>> and i was just about to try that way, any pointers about the install you
>> are willing to share?
>>
>> should be something as follows i figured, can you include /boot this way?
>>
>> sfdisk -d /dev/hda | sfdisk /dev/hdb etc......
>>
>> mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sd[ab]1
>> mdadm --create /dev/md1 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sd[cd]1
>> mdadm --create /dev/md2 --level=0 --raid-devices=2 /dev/md[01]
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Well, if memory doesn't fail, I just did something like:
>
> mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=raid10 --raid-devices=4 /dev/sd[bcde]1
>
> I don't boot currently from that raid, but it should work fine, if you
> told the mdadm package to include boot raid support.
>

almost there ;)

i tried to follow the how-to-forge article on raid1 installation for a
running system, replacing it with raid10.
this seems to work nicely, attached my notes based on the original article.
until the very last final step that is, getting the final raid10 to
boot, i'm not having much luck with grub, i'm receiving grub error 2 at
the moment for all 4 disks.

before i continue on this path i want to ask if it is possible at all.
md0 /root
md1 /swap
md2 /data

so all 3 as RAID10 and no seperate /boot

so here's the question.
1 this is possible and am i just to big a noob to get the correct grub
parameters
2 this is not possible so i should use a seperate /boot in raid1

raid10??

> almost there ;)
>
> i tried to follow the how-to-forge article on raid1 installation for a
> running system, replacing it with raid10.
> this seems to work nicely, attached my notes based on the original article.
> until the very last final step that is, getting the final raid10 to
> boot, i'm not having much luck with grub, i'm receiving grub error 2 at
> the moment for all 4 disks.
>
> before i continue on this path i want to ask if it is possible at all.
> md0 /root
> md1 /swap
> md2 /data
>
> so all 3 as RAID10 and no seperate /boot
>
> so here's the question.
> 1 this is possible and am i just to big a noob to get the correct grub
> parameters
> 2 this is not possible so i should use a seperate /boot in raid1
>
have decided to go for the safe shot and made raid1 partitions for /boot
and raid10 for the rest
not really sure if it would have been possible or easier doing this at
install time, but doing it on a running system has its advantages.
for those interested i have made some notes
http://songshu.org/doku/doku.php?id=host.cipar.net

this leaves me with 1 thing i can't figure out so far and that is that i
can start grub from all 4 disks as planned, but i can only boot in my
case from hd0,0 and hd3,0

is this correct for raid10???? it does make some sense but i'm not sure

--

raid10??

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, randall wrote:
> until the very last final step that is, getting the final raid10 to
> boot, i'm not having much luck with grub, i'm receiving grub error 2 at
> the moment for all 4 disks.

I always end up with a /boot nowadays because it has to be raid1 and
unencrypted, while the rest of the system can be in whatever way you want
(may require initrd/initramfs/etc, though).

Getting lilo or grub to work on anything other than raid1 just ain't worth
it. If it is even possible to begin with, which I am not sure.

--
"One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
Henrique Holschuh

--

raid10??

> > On 28.01.08 11:23, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> > > This makes no sense to me. Why not just pair off the disks in raid1
> > > arrays and then make them all PVs in an LVM setup?

> > because I wanted to skip the LVM part. I have no need for LVM yet...

On 28.01.08 20:23, Gilles Mocellin wrote:
> But LVM stripping (lvcreate -i) will add you the RAID0 part of your RAID10 !
> =>lvm stripping across two raid1 arrays.

read again the "skip the LVM part" please.
--
Matus UHLAR - fantomas, ; http://www.fantomas.sk/
Warning: I wish NOT to receive e-mail advertising to this address.
Varovanie: na tuto adresu chcem NEDOSTAVAT akukolvek reklamnu postu.
"They say when you play that M$ CD backward you can hear satanic messages."
"That's nothing. If you play it forward it will install Windows."

--

raid10??

Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2008 at 04:13:10PM +0100, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
>> I currently run raid0 over raid1. Someone mentioned that I'm lucky because
>> due to some problem this configuration may fail. Well, I'm lucky yet...
>>
> This makes no sense to me. Why not just pair off the disks in raid1
> arrays and then make them all PVs in an LVM setup?

to have control and optimize the speed? afaik, raid 10 is used primarily
for performance, not space consolidation, or safety only.

>
> Regards,
>
> -Roberto
>

--

raid10??

Den Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:40:18 +0100 skrev randall:

> hi all,
>
> i'm setting up a new server and i basically have 4 disks (+2 for back-up
> storage), easiest would be to go for the good old raid5 and suffer the
> performance loss, but i have some time left to do some benchmarking and
> i want to give raid10 a try.
>
> i don't seem to be able to find much resources on google about setting
> up raid 10 in debian (anybody has some experience???) and i also came
> accross the idea of raid1 with lvm setup..is this an option?
>
>
> just wandering if somebody has some thoughts and pointers

There is a general Linux RAID Howto and FAQ at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/

Especially there is a howto on setting up a system with raid all the way
at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php/Preventing_against_a_failing_disk

There is somthing on performance of the various tyoes of Linux raid at
http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php/Performance .

This is information made by the Linux-raid kernel group and reflects
quite recent information. Many other sites contain info that is rather
old.

--

raid10??

Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote:
> Den Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:40:18 +0100 skrev randall:
>
>
>> hi all,
>>
>> i'm setting up a new server and i basically have 4 disks (+2 for back-up
>> storage), easiest would be to go for the good old raid5 and suffer the
>> performance loss, but i have some time left to do some benchmarking and
>> i want to give raid10 a try.
>>
>> i don't seem to be able to find much resources on google about setting
>> up raid 10 in debian (anybody has some experience???) and i also came
>> accross the idea of raid1 with lvm setup..is this an option?
>>
>>
>> just wandering if somebody has some thoughts and pointers
>>
>
> There is a general Linux RAID Howto and FAQ at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/
>
> Especially there is a howto on setting up a system with raid all the way
> at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php/Preventing_against_a_failing_disk
>
> There is somthing on performance of the various tyoes of Linux raid at
> http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php/Performance .
>
> This is information made by the Linux-raid kernel group and reflects
> quite recent information. Many other sites contain info that is rather
> old.
>
>
>
a bit late reply, but nevertheless useful information. i have set up my
raid10 by know and have done it as described in the link below.
To be honest this is the first time i see the f2 and 02 options for
raid10, does anybody know more bedtime reading on that?

http://songshu.org/doku/doku.php?id=host.cipar.net#setup_raid_10

--

raid10??

On Wed, Jul 09, 2008 at 01:55:11PM +0200, randall wrote:
> Keld Jørn Simonsen wrote:
> >Den Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:40:18 +0100 skrev randall:
> >
> >
> >>hi all,
> >>
> >>i'm setting up a new server and i basically have 4 disks (+2 for back-up
> >>storage), easiest would be to go for the good old raid5 and suffer the
> >>performance loss, but i have some time left to do some benchmarking and
> >>i want to give raid10 a try.
> >>
> >>i don't seem to be able to find much resources on google about setting
> >>up raid 10 in debian (anybody has some experience???) and i also came
> >>accross the idea of raid1 with lvm setup..is this an option?
> >>
> >>
> >>just wandering if somebody has some thoughts and pointers
> >>
> >
> >There is a general Linux RAID Howto and FAQ at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/
> >
> >Especially there is a howto on setting up a system with raid all the way
> >at http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php/Preventing_against_a_failing_disk
> >
> >There is somthing on performance of the various tyoes of Linux raid at
> >http://linux-raid.osdl.org/index.php/Performance .
> >
> >This is information made by the Linux-raid kernel group and reflects
> >quite recent information. Many other sites contain info that is rather
> >old.
> >
> >
> >
> a bit late reply, but nevertheless useful information. i have set up my
> raid10 by know and have done it as described in the link below.
> To be honest this is the first time i see the f2 and 02 options for
> raid10, does anybody know more bedtime reading on that?

yes, the info on f2 and o2 is not widespread. We are trying to spread
the word from the linux-raid kernel community.

The wiki is probably the best info.
Some more info could be found in the md and mdasm man pages.
Also wikipedia and mythTV wiki has some info.

best regards
keld

--

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