I can't stand Lenny's Firefox/Iceweasel!

A long and opinionated semi-rant. (You expected anything different?! :-)

I like GNU/Linux and Unix systems in part because they allow me to configure things so the OS gets out of my way. I'm not an idiot. I understand how a hard drive's directory -- err, I mean "folder" -- system is organized. I also know how to type. Not hen-peck or the type of "typing" that I see many users do; I mean I know how to type -- with all 10 fingers! And on a DVORAK keyboard layout, no less.

But I see Firefox/Iceweasel as being "Windows-ized". It's being dumbed down for idiots.

I've got no problems with coders writing progams for clueless users. Hell, I have to work with some of those clueless people, so I sympathize with the coders. But for Christ's sake, don't handicap people that know something!

And that's exactly the trend I see happening with Firefox/Iceweasel. And though I don't use it so I don't know, I've heard others bitch about the same trend happening with all of GNOME.

Etch's Bookmarks Manager: This is Etch's Iceweasel Bookmarks Manager window.This is exactly what Firefox/Iceweasel's open dialog function does. I usually know exactly what subdirectory or what file I want to load -- I don't have to "Browse". But Firefox/Iceweasel thinks I'm an idiot. Worse, it assumes I've got time to waste. Instead of allowing me to type in a subdirectory, path, or filename, I am forced to use a GUI.

Sorry, that's insulting. I have proven repeatedly to some of my computer science students that a decent typist with commandline knowledge is far faster than the most skilled GUI user clicking away at dialog boxes. That's not true for all operations, but for many it most certainly is.

I'm obviously not the only person that feels this way. Linus Torvalds caused a bit of a controversy when in late 2005 he complained about the same thing. Let's face it: Forcing a user to do things a certain way is "un-Linux-like". And forcing a user to do things a slow way is just stupid.

But of course that's a long-standing Firefox/Iceweasel gripe. Let's move on to a new gripe now.

With a web browser, I rely heavily on bookmarks. I have dozens and dozens of folders in my bookmarks.html file. I have over a dozen folders of bookmarks on my "Bookmarks Toolbar" for easy access, and we haven't even started talking about the "main" Bookmarks pulldown folder. It might sound odd to you, but considering the comments I get from other geeks and non-geeks alike, they're fairly impressed with my organization.

With Etch's Firefox/Iceweasel, I could go into the Organize Bookmarks option and tag any folder I wanted to as the Toolbar Folder -- it's right there under the "Edit" pulldown menu then clicking on "Set as Bookmarks Toolbar Folder". That feature made it easy to set up bookmarks the way I like them and to import them or move them between different machines.

Lenny's Library (Bookmarks Manager): This is Lenny's Iceweasel Library (Bookmarks Manager) window.But with Lenny's Firefox/Iceweasel, it's been changed. Poof, that "Set as Bookmarks Toolbar Folder" feature is just gone. Disappeared. Was I the only one that ever used it?

Do you think that's bad? Well try the fact that the entire "Edit" pulldown menu is gone too.

Hell, now when you open up the Organize Bookmarks function, that window/dialog has been renamed from Etch's "Bookmarks Manager" to Lenny's obscure title of "Library". Library?!

Even worse, the entire File pulldown menu is gone. Wasn't it a standard GUI feature to always have a File menu and inside that File menu would be an Exit or Quit option? Not with Lenny's Firefox/Iceweasel! In Lenny, there is only an "Organize" menu and inside that is a "Close" function. WTF? Was "Quit" too complicated? Is any of this standardized or intuitive or has Firefox/Iceweasel adopted Microsoft's policy of changing things just so we can say "gee whiz, it's different!" about the changes?

With Etch's Firefox/Iceweasel, the import/export functions of the Bookmarks Manager was under the File pulldown menu. Sure, that made sense -- you are, after all, importing and exporting files. But with Lenny's Firefox/Iceweasel an "Import and Backup" menu has been added. That will save me a mouse click, but it's non-standard.

How long will it be before we have the level of pollution of GUI app program interfaces that we see in the Windows world? You know what I'm talking about -- how various Windows apps reinvent GUI program interfaces with oddball, ad-hoc menus in a non-standard way.

Now here's what gets me. Do you really think any of this is easier on a clueless end user?

It might be. By that I mean that a person could invent a better GUI, that's for sure. But what the clueless end user really wants is standardization. That clueless end user wants to know that if they bother to learn something that the time, knowledge and effort learning it will be transferable to other programs and will not be made obsolete with the next program version.

GNOME in general and Firefox/Iceweasel are failing on the most basic principles of good user interface design: get out of my way and let me work, don't force me to be an idiot, maintain standards, and don't change things for the sake of changing them.

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Re: I can't stand Lenny's Firefox/Iceweasel!

I haven't seen Lenny's Iceweasel, but I presume it would be derived from Firefox 3, the latest version. It looks like a Debian developer might have been playing around with the menu, because I've seen Firefox 3 on (somebody else's) W*****s and the menu there is just as it was before (though presumably with some small changes), with File, Edit, and so on. Can you show us a screenshot of the menu on your version?

I agree with you about Gnome. Not being able to type a file path into the standard Open File dialogue box is totally inexcusable (even GIMP goes along with this madness!). I realise Gnome has always tried to be as granny-friendly as possible but this is taking geek-unfriendliness to the extreme. All is not lost with Iceweasel though; there is always the option of typing a file:// URI into the location bar.

Despite my dislike of various bits of Gnome, a Gnome desktop with terminal and file manager always open suits me fine. When I want speed and power I use the terminal; when I'm tired and drunk I use the GUI. KDE tries to fit both roles but just ends up cluttered and complicated (in my limited experience of it).

$world=~s/war/peace/g;

GUI standardization, personal preferences and GNOME

No doubt a lot of this is personal preferences, but the mindset of dumbing things down for the user and lack standardization make this a huge issue.

I agree with you that a lot of KDE can be cluttered. My own feeling is to make multiple modes of menus -- newbie, average and expert so to speak -- each with a different level of options and cluttered-ness. But overall, with relatively few exceptions, KDE has been pretty good about not rearranging their cluttered menus so once you learn something, you can expect it to be in the same place with the next version.

As to terminals -- sheesh -- nothing beats Konsole which allows you to have multiple tabs of shells in one window. But that may be a personal preference. :-)

I think a lot of this is just reinvention of the wheel for the sake of the fun of reinvention. OpenOffice's change to now open each file into a separate window (ala MS Word) is one example. (And I'll save you my rant that OOo "broke" (disabled) X's standard copy and paste functions in order to force me into adopting Windows' Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V style.)

Regarding screenshots, the main Firefox/Iceweasel menu functions seem to be identical between Etch and Lenny. The Bookmark menus I've noted with screenshots in the thumbnails above.

Re: GUI standardization, personal preferences and GNOME

Sorry, I misread your post about Iceweasel's menu; I'll have to have a look again.

If you install openoffice.org-gnome (or -kde as appropriate, presumably), it will add X-standard copy/paste to OpenOffice. Works for me anyway.

Tony.

$world=~s/war/peace/g;

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