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What laptop should I buy for running Debian?Hello *, Yes, I know this is a very common question, but knowing that laptops I want to buy a laptop in a range of price between 1000 $ and 1400 $. Actually I'd prefer buying an IBM Thinkpad but I've read that Lenovo I hope all of you can help me and thanks for reading, Note: I'll buy the laptop on the Internet. [0] http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?coid=-30599&seg=HHO -- Bookmark/Search this post with: 
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What laptop should I buy for running Debian?
On Sunday 17 December 2006 13:26, Muammar Wadih El Khatib Rodriguez wrote:
> Hello *,
>
> Yes, I know this is a very common question, but knowing that laptops
> are changing all the time, I'd like knowing what laptop would you
> prefer for running Debian, I mean, what do you suggest? what have been
> your experiences? what shouldn't I buy?.
>
> I want to buy a laptop in a range of price between 1000 $ and 1400 $.
> I was searching on the net and I found a Toshiba Satellite(r) Notebook
> Family: A100/A105 Series. [0]
I've personally had good experience with System76
. (They preload all their computers with Ubuntu,
which I replace with a real Debian install, of course ;) Their laptops
should be easily in your quoted price range.
There are several other Linux-specific laptop vendors out there (Emperor
Linux comes to mind), but I have never used them myself.
--
Wesley J. Landaker
OpenPGP FP: 4135 2A3B 4726 ACC5 9094 0097 F0A9 8A4C 4CD6 E3D2
What laptop should I buy for running Debian?
Have a look at this web site.
http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html
It list a wide range of laptops and information on installing Linux OS including Debian.
I recommend IBM Thinpad with Etch. I have an T43 and R50, both work. The fingerprint reader on the T43 does not work very well but then it doesn't work well under the shipped OS either.
What laptop should I buy for running Debian?
On 12/18/06, stevendemetrius <steven.demetrius@fiwwi.com
> wrote:
Have a look at this web site.
http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html It list a wide range of laptops and information on installing Linux OS including Debian.I recommend IBM Thinpad with Etch. I have an T43 and R50, both work. The fingerprint reader on the T43 does not work very well but then it doesn't work well under the shipped OS either.
--To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-laptop-REQUEST@lists.debian.orgwith a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
listmaster@lists.debian.org
Hello Steve -
I second Thinkpad.
So, you were able to get the fingerprint reader working. I haven't even tried yet. I'm interested in getting the ThinkVantage tools to work on the Debian partition. Have you been able to do this?
Happy holidays,
Sebastian-- "...heart and soul....one will burn."- Joy Division
What laptop should I buy for running Debian?
Baz wrote:
> So, you were able to get the fingerprint reader working.
I'm not sure biometrics are ready for prime-time yet. I don't trust
fingerprint readers and refuse to use biometrics for ID or authentication
beyond their traditional uses because most fingerprint readers can be
fooled by a Jello finger with a reproduction of the print on it, and I
can't exactly go down to Handcrafters and get a new fingerprint in about an
hour if someone does compromise my fingerprint.
--
What laptop should I buy for running Debian?
On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 02:49:03PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Baz wrote:
>
> > So, you were able to get the fingerprint reader working.
>
> I'm not sure biometrics are ready for prime-time yet. I don't trust
> fingerprint readers and refuse to use biometrics for ID or authentication
> beyond their traditional uses because most fingerprint readers can be
> fooled by a Jello finger with a reproduction of the print on it, and I
> can't exactly go down to Handcrafters and get a new fingerprint in about an
> hour if someone does compromise my fingerprint.
Let's take this elsewhere. The firngerprints are a bad authentication
token as they're probably all over your computer. How about using the
that scanner as a scanner to identify an object with a unique pattern
you carry with you?
--
What laptop should I buy for running Debian?
Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 02:49:03PM -0800, Paul Johnson wrote:
>> Baz wrote:
>>
>> > So, you were able to get the fingerprint reader working.
>>
>> I'm not sure biometrics are ready for prime-time yet. I don't trust
>> fingerprint readers and refuse to use biometrics for ID or authentication
>> beyond their traditional uses because most fingerprint readers can be
>> fooled by a Jello finger with a reproduction of the print on it, and I
>> can't exactly go down to Handcrafters and get a new fingerprint in about
>> an hour if someone does compromise my fingerprint.
>
> Let's take this elsewhere. The firngerprints are a bad authentication
> token as they're probably all over your computer. How about using the
> that scanner as a scanner to identify an object with a unique pattern
> you carry with you?
That's getting closer. Something like what banks and offices use for access
control to customer terminals and secured doors would be better: Swipe
your card, then enter your passcode. Biometrics could take the place of
the swipecard, though. Point being, one factor authentication is
inheirently insecure, and one-factor biometric authentication doubly so.
Case in point: Some models of BMW use the owner's fingerprints as an
ignition "key." What have African car theives started to do? Hack the
hand off the owner and use the disembodied hand to start the car! I'm not
sure which is worse: Having someone mutilate you to get your auth token or
have someone copy it with jello knowing you can't readily replace it...
--
ThinkVantage
Hi Sebastian,
> I'm interested in getting the ThinkVantage tools to work on the
> Debian partition. Have you been able to do this?
uhm, how do you imagine this to work ? It's all 'windows native' exe.
I doubt that any emulator can run this stuff without trouble.
But then, what's the point in launching ThinkVantage from a running linux ?
Most tools are available as analog linux tools, and for the few really special
things you might need in rare cases, it should be not too tedious to simply
boot into ThinkVantage...that is, with thinkvantage on poartition /dev/sda2
you can put up an entry in grub menu.lst like this:
title thinkvantage
root (hd0,1)
chainloader +1
hth
mi
--
Thinkpad (was: What laptop should I buy for running Debian?)
On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 09:58:07AM +0100, stevendemetrius wrote:
>
> Have a look at this web site.
>
> http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html
>
> I recommend IBM Thinpad with Etch.
Anyone bought one of these lately? I need to replace my old Toshiba I
use for home/travel and I'm looking at the T60 wide screen.
What I'm not clear on is how to configure it -- I'm just not that up
on laptop hardware and what would work best for installing Debian with
the least amount of fuss. I just don't have the free time I once had
to get things working.
Specifically, is there a good reason to pay $100 more for the ATI
Radeon, and also which wireless to select. Those are the things I've
had most trouble with in the past with laptops.
http://www.lenovo.com/products/us/en/
It's not too hard to bump up the features to $2000USD -- which is a bit
past my price point.
Another random listing of T60s:
http://www.bestbuybusiness.com/bbfb/en/US/adirect/bestbuy?matchKeyword=true&cmd=catSearchFrame&showAdvSearch=false&invokeSearch=true&startNewSearch=true&gotoAdvSearch=false&returnURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestbuybusiness.com%2Fbbfb%2Fen%2FUS%2Fadirect%2Fbestbuy%3Fcmd%3DPartnerHomePageDisplay&returnTarget=_top&doORSearch=false&matchPrimaryKeyword=true&matchKeywordDict=true&search=&OP=&searchType=&term=&categoryPath=&categoryIDs=&domProductQueryName=T60&by_category=
And to pick one nice one at that $2000 level.
http://www.bestbuybusiness.com/bbfb/en/US/adirect/bestbuy?cmd=catProductDetail&productID=BB10709865&operation=showDetails
Oh, and any recommendations on where to buy? -- that is direct from Lenova
vs. online.
I do find the new Macbooks tempting, though. I have an iBook and I
use it often for video ichat with work (I have an iSight camera). And
I use it to bluetooth sync with my cell phone. But, I find it
frustrating to use compared to my old Toshiba running Debian and
icewm. Mac users must not have many windows open at the same time. ;)
And I miss the online support that's available when running Debian. I
had both Apple Care (phone support) and the people at the "Genius Bar"
at the Apple store tell me to reinstall the OS when the problem was
only a mis-configured /etc/cups/client.conf -- reminded me too much of
the old days running Windows.
--
Bill Moseley
--
Thinkpad (was: What laptop should I buy for running Debian?)
Hi
On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:30:49 -0800
Bill Moseley wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 09:58:07AM +0100, stevendemetrius wrote:
> >
> > Have a look at this web site.
> >
> > http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html
> >
> > I recommend IBM Thinpad with Etch.
>
> Anyone bought one of these lately? I need to replace my old Toshiba I
> use for home/travel and I'm looking at the T60 wide screen.
I've got no experience with T-Series. I just got a R60 and it works like
a charm until now. Haven't fiddled with the fingerprint reader yet, but
it should work.
You should check out http://www.thinkwiki.org - it's a really valuable
ressource for Linux in combination with thinkpads. If you have further
questions about the R60 (don't know, whether this is an alternative for
you), feel free to mail me.
Hope this helps.
Regards, Alexander
--
Alexander Reelsen
http://www.emplify.de
--
Thinkpad
Alexander Reelsen wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 15:30:49 -0800
> Bill Moseley wrote:
>
>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2006 at 09:58:07AM +0100, stevendemetrius wrote:
>>
>>> Have a look at this web site.
>>>
>>> http://tuxmobil.org/mylaptops.html
>>>
>>> I recommend IBM Thinpad with Etch.
>>>
>> Anyone bought one of these lately? I need to replace my old Toshiba I
>> use for home/travel and I'm looking at the T60 wide screen.
>>
> I've got no experience with T-Series. I just got a R60 and it works like
> a charm until now. Haven't fiddled with the fingerprint reader yet, but
> it should work.
>
> You should check out http://www.thinkwiki.org - it's a really valuable
> ressource for Linux in combination with thinkpads. If you have further
> questions about the R60 (don't know, whether this is an alternative for
> you), feel free to mail me.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> Regards, Alexander
>
>
If you think you might want to run compiz or have any need for hardware
graphics accelleration think twice before you buy a laptop with an ATI
graphics card.
I have an HP Pavilion dv8000z with the ATI Radeon Xpress 200M and it
will not work with the ATI drivers. Loading the fglrx driver at Xserver
startup sends the cpu into a race condition that creates so much heat
that the laptop will spontaneously reboot within less than a minute if I
don't manually power off the system. I'm locked out of all the text
consoles during that time also so there is no way to recover other than
killing the system with the power switch.
I'm not saying all the ATI cards will react that way, but if you
want/need hardware accelleration be positive that the card being used
will work with the ATI drivers before you purchase your laptop. Your
chances of having an Nvidia card work with Nvidia's drivers are much better.
I'm pretty bummed that I have a machine that is theoretically capable of
runing things such as compiz or any 3D games, but I'm unable to because
of ATI's lousy drivers, and the fact that the open source drivers don't
give any hardware acceleration.
As far as wireless goes you might steer clear of a laptop with Broadcom
wireless chipset if you want to be able to use software such as Airsnort
as the bcm43xx kernel module is still pretty limited. The only way the
Broadcom chip will work with WPA is to use ndiswrapper and the Windows
NDIS drivers. However, if you are comfortable with WEP or clear text
authentication to your wireless AP then it's probably not that big of a
deal. However, just beware that you still will need bcm43xx-fwcutter to
extract the firmware from the Windows drivers before the bcm43xx module
will work.
Now, I suspect that a part of my problems are caused by having a 64-bit
cpu and the rest of the hardware being 32-bit, but that will probably be
true of any other laptop with a 64-bit cpu too. I'm forced into running
a 32-bit OS if I want wireless that starts with the OS. I can't use
ndiswrapper in a pure 64-bit environment as the only Windows drivers
available for the Broadcom chip are 32-bit and the 64-bit bcm43xx kernel
module is something I've never gotten to work in any fashion.
--
Thinkpad
Hi,
On Fre, 29 Dez 2006, Freddy Freeloader wrote:
> If you think you might want to run compiz or have any need for hardware
> graphics accelleration think twice before you buy a laptop with an ATI
> graphics card.
i second that, and.. power management also only work with the ATI binary
drivers.
> I have an HP Pavilion dv8000z with the ATI Radeon Xpress 200M and it
> will not work with the ATI drivers. Loading the fglrx driver at Xserver
> startup sends the cpu into a race condition that creates so much heat
> that the laptop will spontaneously reboot within less than a minute if I
> don't manually power off the system. I'm locked out of all the text
> consoles during that time also so there is no way to recover other than
> killing the system with the power switch.
is Xpress 200M not supported by the r300 driver?
> want/need hardware accelleration be positive that the card being used
> will work with the ATI drivers before you purchase your laptop. Your
> chances of having an Nvidia card work with Nvidia's drivers are much better.
Intel Cards, are the one to choose.
> Now, I suspect that a part of my problems are caused by having a 64-bit
> cpu and the rest of the hardware being 32-bit, but that will probably be
> true of any other laptop with a 64-bit cpu too. I'm forced into running
> a 32-bit OS if I want wireless that starts with the OS. I can't use
> ndiswrapper in a pure 64-bit environment as the only Windows drivers
> available for the Broadcom chip are 32-bit and the 64-bit bcm43xx kernel
> module is something I've never gotten to work in any fashion.
thats bullshit.
your error is/was to buy an laptop and "hope" that your OS
will run on it. Is there a sticker "designed for linux" on it? Why did you
buy hardware which is known not to work under linux?
Aren't there enough reviews at tux mobile?
--
Florian Reitmeir
--
Thinkpad
Florian Reitmeir wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Fre, 29 Dez 2006, Freddy Freeloader wrote:
>
>> If you think you might want to run compiz or have any need for hardware
>> graphics accelleration think twice before you buy a laptop with an ATI
>> graphics card.
>>
>
> i second that, and.. power management also only work with the ATI binary
> drivers.
>
>
>> I have an HP Pavilion dv8000z with the ATI Radeon Xpress 200M and it
>> will not work with the ATI drivers. Loading the fglrx driver at Xserver
>> startup sends the cpu into a race condition that creates so much heat
>> that the laptop will spontaneously reboot within less than a minute if I
>> don't manually power off the system. I'm locked out of all the text
>> consoles during that time also so there is no way to recover other than
>> killing the system with the power switch.
>>
>
> is Xpress 200M not supported by the r300 driver?
>
Not that I have been able to find and I'm not about to chance my
hardware if it isn't. The card is purported by ATI to be supported by
the ATI drivers, but sure doesn't work under them, at least not in the
Pavilion's hardware configuration.
>
>> want/need hardware accelleration be positive that the card being used
>> will work with the ATI drivers before you purchase your laptop. Your
>> chances of having an Nvidia card work with Nvidia's drivers are much better.
>>
>
> Intel Cards, are the one to choose.
>
Ah, yes, those 8-128 megs of shared ram cards....
>
>> Now, I suspect that a part of my problems are caused by having a 64-bit
>> cpu and the rest of the hardware being 32-bit, but that will probably be
>> true of any other laptop with a 64-bit cpu too. I'm forced into running
>> a 32-bit OS if I want wireless that starts with the OS. I can't use
>> ndiswrapper in a pure 64-bit environment as the only Windows drivers
>> available for the Broadcom chip are 32-bit and the 64-bit bcm43xx kernel
>> module is something I've never gotten to work in any fashion.
>>
>
> thats bullshit.
>
Really.... And you know that by what process? Osmosis? Or were you as
big a retard as you imply I am and bought exactly the same laptop I did?
> your error is/was to buy an laptop and "hope" that your OS
> will run on it.
LOL. I did a lot of research and found either proprietary or open
source drivers for all the hardware I cared about on this machine.
Turns out some of the drivers that were said to work, don't, and
ndiswrapper doesn't support software that I wasn't aware of when I
bought the laptop, such as Airsnort. I bought what I found to be a good
value for the money as I paid hundreds less than the advertised price
for this machine and IF the drivers I found BEFORE I bought it had
worked as they were said to I wouldn't be saying what I've said here.
It's as simple as that.
> Is there a sticker "designed for linux" on it? Why did you
> buy hardware which is known not to work under linux?
> Aren't there enough reviews at tux mobile?
>
So, any laptop NOT reviewed at tux mobile is guaranteed not to work
under Linux? ***rolls eyes*** Do all the laptops reviewed on tux
mobile have "designed for Linux" stickers? If so, I wonder why that
site was created? Anyway, I guess, according to you, the people who
wrote all those reviews must have just been retards like me as they
bought laptops that didn't have a "designed for Linux" sticker on them,
and weren't on the list at tux mobile at the time they bought them.
***rolls eyes again***
--
Thinkpad
fredddy@cableone.net said:
> As far as wireless goes you might steer clear of a laptop with
> Broadcom wireless chipset if you want to be able to use software such
> as Airsnort as the bcm43xx kernel module is still pretty limited.
it's progressing rapidly, though. My last laptop was an HP zv5000, and
the bcm43xx driver worked very well.
> The only way the Broadcom chip will work with WPA is to use
> ndiswrapper and the Windows NDIS drivers.
I used bcm43xx to do WPA on a daily basis.
> Now, I suspect that a part of my problems are caused by having a 64-bit
> cpu and the rest of the hardware being 32-bit, but that will probably be
I had no problems using bcm43xx in a 64-bit kernel to do WPA,
monitor mode/kismet/airsnort, pretty much everything.
> true of any other laptop with a 64-bit cpu too. I'm forced into
> running a 32-bit OS if I want wireless that starts with the OS. I
> can't use ndiswrapper in a pure 64-bit environment as the only Windows
> drivers available for the Broadcom chip are 32-bit and the 64-bit
> bcm43xx kernel module is something I've never gotten to work in any
> fashion.
ndiswrapper worked on that hardware for me in both 32- and 64-bit modes.
You need to get different firmware for 64-bit; it's a little harder to
find. I stopped using ndiswrapper as bcm43xx matured.
otoh, bcm43xx's functionality varies widely depending on exactly which
broadcom wireless part you have. Some hardware is still unsupported.
Jason
--
Thinkpad
Jason Lunz wrote:
> said:
>
>> As far as wireless goes you might steer clear of a laptop with
>> Broadcom wireless chipset if you want to be able to use software such
>> as Airsnort as the bcm43xx kernel module is still pretty limited.
>>
>
> it's progressing rapidly, though. My last laptop was an HP zv5000, and
> the bcm43xx driver worked very well.
>
>
>> The only way the Broadcom chip will work with WPA is to use
>> ndiswrapper and the Windows NDIS drivers.
>>
>
> I used bcm43xx to do WPA on a daily basis.
>
>
>> Now, I suspect that a part of my problems are caused by having a 64-bit
>> cpu and the rest of the hardware being 32-bit, but that will probably be
>>
>
> I had no problems using bcm43xx in a 64-bit kernel to do WPA,
> monitor mode/kismet/airsnort, pretty much everything.
>
>
>> true of any other laptop with a 64-bit cpu too. I'm forced into
>> running a 32-bit OS if I want wireless that starts with the OS. I
>> can't use ndiswrapper in a pure 64-bit environment as the only Windows
>> drivers available for the Broadcom chip are 32-bit and the 64-bit
>> bcm43xx kernel module is something I've never gotten to work in any
>> fashion.
>>
>
> ndiswrapper worked on that hardware for me in both 32- and 64-bit modes.
> You need to get different firmware for 64-bit; it's a little harder to
> find. I stopped using ndiswrapper as bcm43xx matured.
>
> otoh, bcm43xx's functionality varies widely depending on exactly which
> broadcom wireless part you have. Some hardware is still unsupported.
>
> Jason
>
>
>
Interesting. What does lspci return as the part number for you, i.e.
14E4:xxxx?
Also, where did you find 64-bit firmware? All I've ever been able to
find is 32-bit.
--