goddammit

On Friday 02 February 2007 17:16, Incoming shared this with us all:
>--} I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or
> some such - and I can't even print. I have also installed JRE, but I
> haven't found out how to connect it to Firefox. --}
>--} I can't downlosd from my digital camera.
>--}
>--} I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web. There
> doesn't seem to be any one that will play them all, or, failing that,
> convert to a format that will play on what I have (Totem, RealPlayer which
> doesn't really work). --}
>--} Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and
> drowning in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run files
> that no longer exist or led from one useless document to another as I RTFM.
> Well, boys and girls, so far any FM I have encountered is NFG or NWAPOCS
> (Not Worth A Pinch...). I can't say that it's not entertaining, but I need
> a complete operating system and not some ill-fitting patches. --}
>--} Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known
> as rants or flames, don't waste my time. --}
>--} What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together
> and how it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer. Not that
> I'd mind, it's just that, currently, I just don't have the time. --}

You might be trying to do too many things at once.
You might just install etch, or upgrade to etch. From the net or whatever way
you want. That will do some of the things for you.

Then once done, one thing at a time, and people here will be able to help you.

It is good, wise and a great help to people who will gladly help you;-
if you post any error messages.
If you describe the hardware, eg.... camera you are trying to mount.

Frustration is understood on this list. But most people have worked through it
and have perfectly running systems on laptops, desktops and other tops.
So it's doable, and some have done it easier than others.
But you give no information in your post.
Maybe try again.
We understand your frustration, but that was when we had absobloominlootly no
idea either, and were helped through it on this list.

Be well,
Charlie

--
Registered Linux User:- 329524
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without
accepting it. .................Aristotle

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Linux Debian Etch

--

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:16:44PM -0800, Incoming wrote:
> I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or some such - and I can't even print. I have also installed JRE, but I haven't found out how to connect it to Firefox.
>
OK. Where did you obtain the JRE? How did you install the JRE?

> I can't downlosd from my digital camera.
>
OK. How are you trying to download from your camera? Did you get any
errors? What did they say?

> I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web. There doesn't seem to be any one that will play them all, or, failing that, convert to a format that will play on what I have (Totem, RealPlayer which doesn't really work).
>
OK. What media player are you using? Are you pulling packages from
www.debian-multimedia.org? What errors are you getting?

> Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and drowning in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run files that no longer exist or led from one useless document to another as I RTFM. Well, boys and girls, so far any FM I have encountered is NFG or NWAPOCS (Not Worth A Pinch...). I can't say that it's not entertaining, but I need a complete operating system and not some ill-fitting patches.
>
OK. Debian is a complete operating system. However, some assembly is
required.

> Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known as rants or flames, don't waste my time.
>
It seems that you have wasted people's time here with your rant without
any useful information that can be used to help you fix/get past your
problems.

> What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together and how it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer. Not that I'd mind, it's just that, currently, I just don't have the time.

It's not that difficult. If you will provide examples of commands that
you have run and the resulting output/errors, then we can help. I don't
think anyone on this list is clairvoyant.

Regards,

-Roberto

--
Roberto C. Sanchez
http://people.connexer.com/~roberto
http://www.connexer.com

Dear Sir,

>From: Incoming
>To:
>Subject: goddammit
>Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2007 22:16:44 -0800 (PST)
>
>I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or some
>such - and I can't even print.

Hang on a second. Are you a Linux user or a person migrating from Windows?
You have to make a bit more effort with Linux....

I have also installed JRE, but I haven't found out how to connect it to
Firefox.
>
>I can't downlosd from my digital camera.
>
>I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web. There doesn't
>seem to be any one that will play them all, or, failing that, convert to a
>format that will play on what I have (Totem, RealPlayer which doesn't
>really work).

Use VLC. You need to install it in synaptic or with apt-get. We can help.

>
>Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and
>drowning in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run files
>that no longer exist or led from one useless document to another as I RTFM.
> Well, boys and girls, so far any FM I have encountered is NFG or NWAPOCS
>(Not Worth A Pinch...).

The solution is to read them as best you can and then post questions here.
People will guide you to solve the problems.

I can't say that it's not entertaining, but I need a complete operating
system and not some ill-fitting patches.

The operating system is complete, in fact it is more complete than e.g.
Windows in many ways..... You can get software that will let you run a
dozen PC's in parallel in your own little supercomputing array with Sargeant
Wolly but you can't do that with Windows as far as I know....

>
>Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known as
>rants or flames, don't waste my time.

I don't flame people.
>
>What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together and
>how it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer.

The reason is that the OS is maintained by people who are volunteers. The
people are usually very technically literate and so they don't need as much
RTFM stuff as the average Joe. Also they are usually more interested in
developing the OS than writing manuals and documentation. There definitely
are problems with making it easy to install and use Linux OSes see -

http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/world-domination-201.html
.
The problems with your printer and camera can be fixed. You need to learn
how to configure the printer. It's not too difficult.

If you posted a query on the site on how to securely network 300 PC's in a
business or do parallel computing with a dozen PC's you would get more
interest from people here than just configuring a printer..........

Whereas in Windows land that would likely frighten everyone away.....

Regards,

Michael Fothergill
Not that I'd mind, it's just that, currently, I just don't have the time.
>__________________________
>Stops spam 100% for your email accounts or you get paid.
>http://www.cashette.com
>
>
>--

On 2/2/07, Incoming wrote:
> Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known as rants or flames, don't waste my time.
>

Oh the irony!

There are nicer ways to ask for help you know. Starting of by flaming
people, then preemptively trying to make them refrain from flaming you
isn't going to help much.

Anyway, some general pointers for the Debian newbie:
1) docs are in order of preference: man-pages,
/usr/share/doc/, info-pages, the config files themselves,
the various debian docs (available on the website), google, this
mailinglist (see google) and then everything else.
2) If you want something more easy to configure as a desktop system,
use ubuntu. It caters to your kind of user. In Debian everything Just
Works(TM) but not the way you expect it to.
3) whenever trying to configure something, first find out what package
you need. (search with aptitude or synaptic) Make sure they are
installed. Read the portions in /usr/share/doc. If you don't know
where to start for installing software, at least read the relevant
portions of the installation guide, or you'll end up getting flamed a
lot more.

packagenames for your problems:
printing - cups (install it and browse to localhost:631 or something)
multimedia - there's xine, mplayer, vlc. You can use totem as the
frontend for xine (install totem-xine). You need w32codecs for a lot
of the formats out there (uses windows codecs for playback). There are
packages available from debian-multimedia.org

greets,
Wim

--

I understand the need to let off steam. Stuff doesn't work correctly
and you haven't time to waste: it would be very much appreciated if you
could please give us some of the information asked for below.
Details help in formulating better questions and allowing people to
narrow in on the problems and help you better/more quickly.
[Some of your message has been wrapped below so that it can be read
on an 80 column screen.]

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:16:44PM -0800, Incoming wrote:

> I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or some
> such - and I can't even print.

OK. Sarge is now ~18 months old. We are hoping to get out a new release
very soon now. At this stage, it might be worth just upgrading to Etch -
as others have said - but you may want to hang on until it becomes
absolutely stable.

If you're running X windows with a graphical display:

Which desktop environment do you have - KDE (which looks fairly Windows
like, with a task bar at the bottom) or Gnome (task bar at the top).

Which make/model printer do you have?

Do you know if it would work under Windows but just doesn't work here?

> I have also installed JRE, but I haven't found out how to connect it
> to Firefox.

Where did you install the JRE from - which website/url or was it already
packaged for Debian?

> I can't downlosd from my digital camera.

Make/model? Does it have a USB connection to download data / Firewire /
does it write to removable digital media?

>
> I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web.
> There doesn't seem to be any one that will play them all, or, failing
> that, convert to a format that will play on what I have (Totem,
> RealPlayer which doesn't really work).

Unfortunately, many of the formats are subject to patents or whatever:
some are completely closed source formats. Can you detail some of the
formats that do or don't work? Decoders and players for some multimedia
formats are available from sites other than the main Debian site.

>
> Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and
> drowning in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run
> files that no longer exist or led from one useless document to
> another as I RTFM. ... I need a complete operating system and not
> some ill-fitting patches.
>

/usr/share/doc/ is a good place to start on a Debian machine.

www.debianhelp.org / www.debianhelp.co.uk /
www.debian-administration.org / www.debianadmin.com

may all be good Web places to start. You do have a complete operating
system: your problem is that you are unfamiliar with it and where to
find information on it.

> Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise
> known as rants or flames, don't waste my time.

You have posted to the list in good faith: the least that can be done is
to treat you with respect and politeness. Debian does have something of
a reputation for pointless flamewars, usually between developers, but a
user query merits a considered, hopefully a helpful response.
>
> What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together
> and how it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer. Not
> that I'd mind, it's just that, currently, I just don't have the time.
[The paragraph below is true, incidentally.]

I spent much of last weekend reinstalling a Windows system. Windows XP
doesn't come with anti-virus software or a firewall, I had to download
a huge download of Service Pack 2 just to get updates. It didn't support
my new video card in greater than 16 colours at 640 x 480 or my sound
card at all unless I could find driver disks or could connect to the
'Net. It didn't support my printer automatically even though it was
plugged in - and then I had to go off to untrusted non-Microsoft third
party sites to get Firefox, Adobe PDF, Flash and Shockwave plugins and then
off to Real to get Realplayer. It needed 14 reboots 'til it was ready.

Many users find life hard enough installing anti-virus software and
keeping it up to date. A vanishingly small percentage of users have ever
set up Windows from scratch: I know of system administrators and MCSE's
who don't touch their networks because they daren't. It is hard - but it
is getting easier to install Linux and have it working and doing what you
want it to do.

HTH,

Andy

--

On Thu, Feb 01, 2007 at 10:16:44PM -0800, Incoming wrote:
> I have been fighting with this damned Debian 3.1 - Sergeant Wolly or some such - and I can't even print. I have also installed JRE, but I haven't found out how to connect it to Firefox.
>
> I can't downlosd from my digital camera.
>
> I can only play a few of the video formats out on the web. There doesn't seem to be any one that will play them all, or, failing that, convert to a format that will play on what I have (Totem, RealPlayer which doesn't really work).
> Every time I go looking for solutions I wind up going in circles and drowning in a mass of half-baked how-to's and advice on how to run files that no longer exist or led from one useless document to another as I RTFM. Well, boys and girls, so far any FM I have encountered is NFG or NWAPOCS (Not Worth A Pinch...). I can't say that it's not entertaining, but I need a complete operating system and not some ill-fitting patches.
>
> Before anyone decides to engage in infantile gibberish, otherwise known as rants or flames, don't waste my time.
>
> What I really want to know is why this is so difficult to put together and how it can be done without me becoming a systems engineer. Not that I'd mind, it's just that, currently, I just don't have the time.
> __________________________

Its free and updated by volunteers in *their* spare time. Its not always
perfect, I mean some of the documentation is very entertaining,
frustrating, etc. Sometimes it feels like you are banging your head
against a brick wall.

One course of action you could take is to pay someone to set it up for
you.

Another would be to ask helpful questions on this mailing list, see:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Another would be to try Ubuntu or the countless other distributions out
there. Although the documentation problems probably still exist. But you
may never need to read them. :-)

--
Chris.
======
Don't forget to check that your /etc/apt/sources.lst entries point to
etch and not testing, otherwise you may end up with a broken system once
etch goes stable.

--