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Paying the cost for the "War on Terror"Paying the cost for the "War on Terror" 2 articles I found. The first one is an extract from The Guardian newspaper in the UK, and the second is from a US online newspaper. Article 1: 37 million poor hidden in the land of plenty Americans have always believed that hard work will bring rewards, but vast numbers now cannot meet their bills even with two or three jobs. More than one in 10 citizens live below the poverty line, and the gap between the haves and have-nots is widening [snip] A shocking 37 million Americans live in poverty. That is 12.7 per cent of the population - the highest percentage in the developed world. They are found from the hills of Kentucky to Detroit's streets, from the Deep South of Louisiana to the heartland of Oklahoma. Each year since 2001 their number has grown. Under President George W Bush an extra 5.4 million have slipped below the poverty line. Yet they are not a story of the unemployed or the destitute. Most have jobs. Many have two. Amos Lumpkins has work and his children go to school. But the economy, stripped of worker benefits like healthcare, is having trouble providing good wages. [snip] · There are 37 million Americans living below the poverty line. That figure has increased by five million since President George W. Bush came to power. · The United States has 269 billionaires, the highest number in the world. · Almost a quarter of all black Americans live below the poverty line; 22 per cent of Hispanics fall below it. But for whites the figure is just 8.6 per cent. · There are 46 million Americans without health insurance. · There are 82,000 homeless people in Los Angeles alone. · In 2004 the poorest community in America was Pine Ridge Indian reservation. Unemployment is over 80 per cent, 69 per cent of people live in poverty and male life expectancy is 57 years. In the Western hemisphere only Haiti has a lower number. · The richest town in America is Rancho Santa Fe in California. Average incomes are more than $100,000 a year; the average house price is $1.7m. Article 2: U.S. economy leaving record numbers in severe poverty By Tony Pugh McClatchy Newspapers [snip] These and other factors have helped push 43 percent of the nation's 37 million poor people into deep poverty - the highest rate since at least 1975. [snip] Nearly two out of three people (10.3 million) in severe poverty are white, but blacks (4.3 million) and Hispanics of any race (3.7 million) make up disproportionate shares. Blacks are nearly three times as likely as non-Hispanic whites to be in deep poverty, while Hispanics are roughly twice as likely. [snip] States with the most people in severe poverty: California - 1.9 million Texas - 1.6 million New York - 1.2 million Florida - 943,670 Illinois - 681,786 Ohio - 657,415 Pennsylvania - 618,229 Michigan - 576,428 Georgia - 562,014 North Carolina - 523,511 Source: U.S. Census Bureau --- © 2007, McClatchy-Tribune Information Services. Bookmark/Search this post with: 
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Afghanistan ...
The war there wasn't unnecessary - but it wasn't done properly and Osama just walked away laughing. He's still wandering free - a fact Bush tries to cover up with lame diversion tactics. We should have had a troop presence closer to what we have in Iraq - then we'd have some hope of cutting off the border to Pakistan and maintaining peace in the region. Instead we've instituted greedy puppet dictators as we have throughout our imperial history and we've put in a skeleton crew to watch the place. All part of Dubbyah's "all you got to do in a war is bomb them" vision. But Dubbyah's war has already cost us hundreds of billions - the grandkids will be paying for that still. He's bankrupted the nation, given the super-rich tax cuts, decimated civil liberties, forced people in uniform to serve in Iraq indefinitely - the list just goes on. And don't ever forget he stole the election with help from that cow in Florida - "nigger votes don't count". That's exactly what it came to - niggers being denied their vote. "Hanging chad" my ass - it's obvious who the people wanted to vote for so they had to come up with some lame excuse to deprive them of their constitutional right to vote.
Paying the cost for the "War
I also heared that the top 1% Americans have more money than the bottom 90% (though I do not have a reference for that figure).
how sad.
Motto: chown -R linux:GNU world
Distros: Debian, gNewSense
hard to believe ...
It souds like some corruption of a statement some economist made back in the late 1950's or early 1960's - something like the upper 5% having more than the lower 30%. Things are getting worse but I wouldn't trust a 1% to 90% figure - maybe a 10% to 50% .. maybe even 10% to 70% but I think even that would be stretching things. Of course governments like to say "there are more rich people now than there ever were" - ah, the wonders of a population boom - there are also an awful lot more poor folk than there ever were and they're in worse shape now than they were 30 years ago. Also, salaries for top executives are way over the top - the King of Gouging himself, Jack Welch, was paid more than 2000 times more than the average Joe at GE. Now if that were true in every single business (which isn't possible) you'd certainly end up with 1% having more than the other 90%...
hard to believe ...
no, I don't think so. I read no newspapers, no commercial radio (or NPR/PBS either) and I don't even HAVE a TV. I read all sorts of stuff - good and not so good - on the net, but I remember *hearing* this figure which leaves only two possibilities:
1) Democracynow.org
2) Scott Horton on AntiwarRadio
Frankly - anyone can make a mistake, but these two really have in-depth knowledge of their stuff (-: they could make a huge income working for the Empire if they wanted to :-)
Also - the richer got so much richer and the poor so much poorer since Dubya that this figure sounds actully very real to me.
I lived in the USA from 1986 through 1991 and then I left for a couple of years and came back in 2001 and have been living in the Imperial Homeland since. I can tell you that it feels like two different countries and for all its faults, I still remember the old USA of the late eighties with a great deal of nostalgia.
Anyway - my guess is that this figure is correct.
Cheers!
Motto: chown -R linux:GNU world
Distros: Debian, gNewSense
hard to believe ...
Poverty is obviously not only a US problem.
Here in Greece, estimates of poverty range from 20% to 13%
The official government statistcs using 2004 data:
http://www.mnec.gr/en/press_office/DeltiaTypou/articles/article0069.html
"The NSS study presented by the Minister put the poverty threshold at 5,649.78 euros for single persons and 11,864.54 euros for a family with two dependent children. Under this definition, a total of 832, 456 households with 2,088,701 people (13.6% of the population), are considered to live in poverty in Greece."
Compare all that with Chavez's Venezuela.
http://oilwars.blogspot.com/2006_09_03_archive.html
"This means that since Chavez came to power in 1999 the income of Venezuela’s poorest has increased between 45% and 92% depending on whose numbers you believe. Either of those numbers represents a stunning increase and go a long ways towards explaining Chavez’s overwhelming popularity."
anticapitalista
"Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it."
hard to believe ...
I know - but you also know what the Imperial teeny-boppers will answer to that: that Venezuela's numbers are cooked by the government (how that would explain Chavez's popularity remains unspecified).
Also - the difference is not poverty which, alas, exists pretty much everywhere, but the obscene wealth of the Imperial 'nomenklatura' and the fact that the poverty figures are kept artificially low by sticking about 2'000'000 people into jails.
Motto: chown -R linux:GNU world
Distros: Debian, gNewSense
income distribution
There is no way the top 1% earns more than the bottom 90%. The US median household income is around $45,000 per year. That's probably fairly close to the mean income of the bottom 90%. Then for the top 1% to make as much as the bottom 90%, the mean for the top 1% would have to be 90x$45,000=$4,000,000 per year.
(edit: oops had one too many zeros in there, but I still don't think 1/100 US households make $4 million per year).
income distribution
I just googled around and found this:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
I just glanced at this but this does seem to support the hypothesis. Am I misreading/misunderstanding something here?
income distribution
Sorry about that. I misread your original statement. Somehow I turned "have" into "earn" in my mind.
However, Table 6 of that link does show income.
The top 1% earns about half as much as the bottom 80%.
Either figure, income or wealth, is quite astounding. But it shows how an imbalance in income leads to an even greater imbalance of wealth. Put another way, the more you make, the easier it is to save a larger percentage of your income.
income distribution
Well, keep in mind that top eaners NEVER EVER declare their full income, but find all sorts of creative ways to hide it one way or another. I have had some close contacts with the private banking world and you would not believe what goes on there. So if, as you say, "the top 1% earns about half as much as the bottom 80%" I can vouch for the fact that the very same top 1% net worth is much, MUCH higer than their nomimal income.
Motto: chown -R linux:GNU world
Distros: Debian, gNewSense
This is an interesting thread.
This is an interesting thread.
Billions of the earth's inhabitants live in poverty. I can't see their status ever changing.
We must take the wealth from the rich and share it with the poor.
All of this wealth spread amongst the poor will not change poverty but it will make all equal.
Spreading the wealth will create, if not a worker's paradise, at least a paradise.
Until that day, I and billions of others, will continue to possess something that money cannot buy.
This is an interesting thread.
You almost sound like a communist there jaclon. "Take the wealth from the rich and sharing it with the poor", "Spreading the wealth will create, if not a worker's paradise, at least a paradise".
Must be the Jack London or Woodie Guthrie influence.
A million miles away from most of the drivel you post here.
BTW:
What do you possess (and billions of others) that money cannot buy?
Let me guess, a (g)God. Or a love of your life.
Hope it is the second.
anticapitalista
"Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it."
It's the truth.
anticapitalista,
"What do you possess (and billions of others) that money cannot buy?"
Poverty.
I look beyond those who rule either through Communism or Capitalism. Their theologies, along with those of the Christians, Muslims, and other social leaders, are used to control people.
What Marx created, man has subverted. What Jesus died for has been wasted by man.
Love thy neighbor is the only way but no one wants to share.
The fact that so much time and ink is given to the study and discussion of poverty shows that society isn't interested in solving the problem. Spread the wealth and then there will be no poverty. Of course, only the very poor will be willing to give up their wealth.
It's the truth.
Well I hope you do, but you should question whether those that rule through "communism" are really Communists. And most of your posts happily regurgitate FoxSnooze's capitalist way of thinking.
Including the Zionists that you are so happy to defend?!
I find this a strange comment from someone who recently posted his hope for the "South to Rise Again", what with a good ol' (neighbourly) lynching?
So, let us know what you think society and we (its citizens should do.
anticapitalista
"Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it."
I guess I'm not explaining myself very well.
"I look beyond those who rule either through Communism or Capitalism. Their theologies, along with those of the Christians, Muslims, and other social leaders, are used to control people."
I guess I'm not explaining myself very well.
People use Communism, Capitalism, and all the other 'isms to rule their fellow man.Since jews created Communism, we should consider them fully capable of twisting it to their use.
"I find this a strange comment from someone who recently posted his hope for the "South to Rise Again", what with a good ol' (neighbourly) lynching?"
There is not a country in the world that hasn't experienced lynching (the murder of the weak by the citizenry) at one time or another in it's history. If you read the history of the south you will find more than just the lynchings.
Since the majority of today's Russian citizens long for the return of Communism, I believe that the Soviets had more than the Gulags.
"So, let us know what you think society and we (its citizens should do."
You should listen to your rulers. They have the marching orders directly from the oligarchy.
Will Rogers had the right idea.
"I bet you if I had met him [Trotsky] and had a chat with him, I would have found him a very interesting and human fellow, for I never yet met a man that I didn't like."
Will Rogers
I guess I'm not explaining myself very well.
True enough, except that in the South racial segregation was enshrined in law, in the early days as slavery and later, Jim Crow.
The history of the south includes the fight against this racism and if you read decent history books you'll find it is full of class struggle.
Pity the IWW (Wobblies) failed and then were annihilated by the US state. The USA would be a much different place otherwise.
anticapitalista
"Philosophers have interpreted the world in many ways; the point is to change it."
I guess I'm not explaining myself very well.
you clearly do not understand the lynching phenomenon. I reccommend that you read the following book:
"At the Hands of Persons Unknown - the Lynching of Black America" by Philip Dray, Modern Library editions, 2002.
Should you read this you will see that US-style lynchings are something unique to the USA, they are not an local expression of individual violence, but a integral part of the 'culture' of the USA, something as organic to the USA (both south AND north) as, say, bullfights are to Spain.
Motto: chown -R linux:GNU world
Distros: Debian, gNewSense
Re: Paying the cost for the "War
Most studies put the wealth of the richest 1% as owning about 50% of all US wealth; that is the largest rich/poor gap since the Great Depression. (Faireconomy.org is one source.)
Re: Paying the cost for the "War
Interesting... how does this jive with this?
might the figures you quote be older, or are different methodologies used?
Motto: chown -R linux:GNU world
Distros: Debian, gNewSense
bush-cheney incompetence exacerbated
The Bush-Cheney admin is described as incompetent and I think that they are, but there's something else that exacerbates that baseline incompetence. They are stuck with gorilla glue-like strength to a limited set of viewpoints/beliefs/principles/assertions – call them whatever suits you, and these'things' they hold about what government is and how it should be conducted are not sound and probably wouldn't work too well even under the guidance of competent folks.
The thing that keeps coming back to me is their bed-rock principle of out-sourcing everything. While there may be some instances where a private contractor has taken on a government function or program and done it well I don't know of any shining examples. Cast back over news stories from the last 5 or 6 years and recall the failures: Halliburton/KBR not delivering services to soldiers or doing it at absolutely outrageous prices, serial screw-up when Katrina hit New Orleans, and the most recent, the shitty conditions ( provided via a 5-year, 120 million dollar contract with a former senior Halliburton official) at Walter Reed Army Medical Center .
When Bush-Cheney were put in office I felt that they had one large, over-all objective and that was to loot the treasury and gut the governmen. Now that is the only place where their competence shines through.