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Beautifying Debian EtchHello,I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this mailing list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I decided that I completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is complete and I wrote a short article in my blog about the redesign process. The article includes screenshots and original artworks. Do you like the redesign? You can read the article here. http://jozmak.blogspot.com/Jmak http://jozmak.googlepages.com Bookmark/Search this post with: 
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Beautifying Debian Etch
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eklektik wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this
> mailing list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I decided
> that I completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is complete and I
> wrote a short article in my blog about the redesign process. The article
> includes screenshots and original artworks. Do you like the redesign?
> You can read the article here.
>
> http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
>
> Jmak
> http://jozmak.googlepages.com
Does it matter if someone else likes it? What matters is that you like
it. It is your system, and you should make it to look like whatever you
want, that's the idea.
Joe
- --
Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/
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Beautifying Debian Etch
Joe Hart wrote:
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eklektik wrote:
Hello,
I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this
mailing list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I decided
that I completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is complete and I
wrote a short article in my blog about the redesign process. The article
includes screenshots and original artworks. Do you like the redesign?
You can read the article here.
http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
Jmak
http://jozmak.googlepages.com
Does it matter if someone else likes it? What matters is that you like
it. It is your system, and you should make it to look like whatever you
want, that's the idea.
Joe
- --
Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/
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Jmak
The redesign seems to be quite attractive actually. Well done on your
XFce hacks - there were a few of those issues that used to bug me about
XFce. I had spent a fair amount of time configuring the launchers to
how I wanted them but then after changing from Slackware to Etch found
that all of my configs had been superceded by the latest XFce install.
After that, I just couldn't be bothered so stuck with Gnome, but
configured that to my liking instead.
Anyway, I agree with Joe: the system is yours - so if you like what you
have done, that is the final arbiter of good design. The point being:
if you are satisfied with your work, then that's what counts.
Cheers
/@
--
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." - Thomas Pynchon, "Gravity's Rainbow"
Beautifying Debian Etch
> The article includes screenshots and original artworks. Do you like
> the redesign? You can read the article here.
It looks good. I may try it myself. I'm curious about the panels of
your xfce setup. In mine, when I installed xfce, there was both a top
and bottom panel (it was a while ago that I installed it). Your default
desktop seems to only have a bottom panel (which becomes a side panel
after your redesign). Is having only one panel the new Debian default
for xfce?
Mark
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
----- Original Message ----From: Gustavo Franco <stratus@debian.org>To: : Friday, April 6, 2007 12:15:29 PMSubject: Re: Beautifying Debian EtchOn 4/6/07, eklektik <joz_mak@yahoo.ca> wrote:>> Hello,>> I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this mailing> list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I decided that I> completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is complete and I wrote a> short article in my blog about the redesign process. The article includes> screenshots and original
artworks. Do you like the redesign? You can read> the article here.>You've no idea how hard it was to make sure that we've common artworkbetween the three major desktop environments and come up withdebian-moreblue. I like debian-moreblue more than your stuff, but I'mof course biased.The problem I see with your artwork is that the red swirl seems to besomething lost over the blue wallpaper, asking some artists that haveno idea about what Debian is give me the impression thatdebian-moreblue was the right decision.Closing, Debian is not and never will be about hate each other's work,if you're satisfied with your own stuff, great! If you think thatalmost all the users would enjoy that you're free to join us atdebian-desktop mailing list and submit your desktop-base (this is asource package) theme, to be used in KDE, Xfce and GNOME, you reallyneed to keep it also in mind.
For me the problem is that etch default look and feel is totally out of date. Even those who doesn't have artistic training can sense that the artworks are amateurish. When I showed the artworks to my graphic designer friends they were horrified.
But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a default when there are so many awesome icons are available on the gnome look site?
Anyhow, thanks for the invitation for joining the debian-desktop mailing list; I might join.
Jmak
http://jozmak.googlepages.com-- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
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Beautifying Debian Etch
On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) eklektik wrote:
> For me the problem is that etch default look and feel is totally
> out of date. Even those who doesn't have artistic training can sense
> that the artworks are amateurish. When I showed the artworks to my
> graphic designer friends they were horrified.
>
> But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a default
> when there are so many awesome icons are available on the gnome look
> site?
It is not my intention to say something unfriendly, but I must say
that I still strongly prefer the original design.
Displaying a home directory with a picture of a house, depicting
the 'settings' with a spanner? Children will like it, but as an adult
I feel insulted.
And sophisticated artwork just serves a certain target audience;
there are others (like me) to whom it is just irritating.
Apparently, personal tastes can vary very widely.
--
Sjoerd
(who has fled to Blackbox)
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
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Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
>
> Apparently, personal tastes can vary very widely.
>
Oh yes. That is why there are so many different programs (or suites of
programs.
One of the first things I do when installing any system is to replace
the default theme. I was quite upset to find that Debian Etch uses
overrides to make it more difficult for people to do this, at least with
KDE.
Its a simple fix to disable the override if you know where to look, but
it's not real obvious, and new users will struggle if they encounter the
message that pops up when one tries to change the theme.
Needless to say, the user should be the one that decides what the system
should look like, but there does need to be nice looking artwork for the
default because many users never bother changing the settings, they just
want to use the computer, not customize it.
Joe
- --
Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/
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Beautifying Debian Etch
On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 04:53:16AM EDT, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) eklektik wrote:
> > For me the problem is that etch default look and feel is totally
> > out of date. Even those who doesn't have artistic training can sense
> > that the artworks are amateurish. When I showed the artworks to my
> > graphic designer friends they were horrified.
> >
> > But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a default
> > when there are so many awesome icons are available on the gnome look
> > site?
>
> It is not my intention to say something unfriendly, but I must say
> that I still strongly prefer the original design.
>
> Displaying a home directory with a picture of a house, depicting
> the 'settings' with a spanner? Children will like it, but as an adult
> I feel insulted.
I agree 100%.
And it's not just that I feel insulted .. The confusion between complex
abstractions such as home or settings .. and cartoon-style renderings
of fragments of reality .. houses .. spanners .. doesn't strike me as a
very effective way to encourage creativity and nurture intelligence in
children and adults alike.
Thanks,
cga
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 11:47 -0400, cga2000 wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 04:53:16AM EDT, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
> > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) eklektik wrote:
> > > For me the problem is that etch default look and feel is totally
> > > out of date. Even those who doesn't have artistic training can sense
> > > that the artworks are amateurish. When I showed the artworks to my
> > > graphic designer friends they were horrified.
> > >
> > > But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a default
> > > when there are so many awesome icons are available on the gnome look
> > > site?
> >
> > It is not my intention to say something unfriendly, but I must say
> > that I still strongly prefer the original design.
> >
> > Displaying a home directory with a picture of a house, depicting
> > the 'settings' with a spanner? Children will like it, but as an adult
> > I feel insulted.
>
> I agree 100%.
>
> And it's not just that I feel insulted .. The confusion between complex
> abstractions such as home or settings .. and cartoon-style renderings
> of fragments of reality .. houses .. spanners .. doesn't strike me as a
> very effective way to encourage creativity and nurture intelligence in
> children and adults alike.
Sheesh, the nerve of you all.
Nothing like quashing someone who wants to help show people how to do
something.
At least you could give kudos for showing the light as to how easy it
really is.
And people bitch about my off-topic threads that aren't even close to
this kind of rudeness.
--
greg,
That was as boring as a performance of "Richard the 3rd" with potatoes for
actors. They're all eyes.
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
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Greg Folkert wrote:
[snip]
>>> Displaying a home directory with a picture of a house, depicting
>>> the 'settings' with a spanner? Children will like it, but as an adult
>>> I feel insulted.
>> I agree 100%.
>>
>> And it's not just that I feel insulted .. The confusion between complex
>> abstractions such as home or settings .. and cartoon-style renderings
>> of fragments of reality .. houses .. spanners .. doesn't strike me as a
>> very effective way to encourage creativity and nurture intelligence in
>> children and adults alike.
>
> Sheesh, the nerve of you all.
>
> Nothing like quashing someone who wants to help show people how to do
> something.
>
> At least you could give kudos for showing the light as to how easy it
> really is.
>
> And people bitch about my off-topic threads that aren't even close to
> this kind of rudeness.
Oh how right you are Greg.
If you as a user are unhappy with the icons, wallpaper, or any other
part of the screen that one sees, then by all means apply changes. It
is your system.
This is not the place to discuss how "pretty" a desktop is, there is
another mailing list for that and it is debian-desktop. There one can
bitch and whine about what they think is pretty.
Joe
- --
Registerd Linux user #443289 at http://counter.li.org/
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Beautifying Debian Etch
On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 12:03:29 -0400 Greg Folkert wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 11:47 -0400, cga2000 wrote:
> > On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 04:53:16AM EDT, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
> > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) eklektik wrote:
> > > > For me the problem is that etch default look and feel is
> > > > totally out of date. Even those who doesn't have artistic
> > > > training can sense that the artworks are amateurish. When I
> > > > showed the artworks to my graphic designer friends they were
> > > > horrified.
> > > >
> > > > But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a
> > > > default when there are so many awesome icons are available on
> > > > the gnome look site?
> > >
> > > It is not my intention to say something unfriendly, but I must
> > > say that I still strongly prefer the original design.
> > >
> > > Displaying a home directory with a picture of a house,
> > > depicting the 'settings' with a spanner? Children will like it,
> > > but as an adult I feel insulted.
> >
> > I agree 100%.
> >
> > And it's not just that I feel insulted .. The confusion between
> > complex abstractions such as home or settings .. and cartoon-style
> > renderings of fragments of reality .. houses .. spanners .. doesn't
> > strike me as a very effective way to encourage creativity and
> > nurture intelligence in children and adults alike.
>
> Sheesh, the nerve of you all.
>
> Nothing like quashing someone who wants to help show people how to do
> something.
>
> At least you could give kudos for showing the light as to how easy it
> really is.
>
> And people bitch about my off-topic threads that aren't even close to
> this kind of rudeness.
It strikes me that you see it as rudeness. Having a different opinion
is not the same as being rude, is it. And I felt that the makers of the
original design were being 'quashed', as you call it, just as well.
Kudos for both, as far as I'm concerned.
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 19:34 +0200, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Apr 2007 12:03:29 -0400 Greg Folkert wrote:
> > On Sat, 2007-04-07 at 11:47 -0400, cga2000 wrote:
> > > On Sat, Apr 07, 2007 at 04:53:16AM EDT, Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
> > > > On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 15:14:35 -0400 (EDT) eklektik wrote:
> > > > > For me the problem is that etch default look and feel is
> > > > > totally out of date. Even those who doesn't have artistic
> > > > > training can sense that the artworks are amateurish. When I
> > > > > showed the artworks to my graphic designer friends they were
> > > > > horrified.
> > > > >
> > > > > But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a
> > > > > default when there are so many awesome icons are available on
> > > > > the gnome look site?
> > > >
> > > > It is not my intention to say something unfriendly, but I must
> > > > say that I still strongly prefer the original design.
> > > >
> > > > Displaying a home directory with a picture of a house,
> > > > depicting the 'settings' with a spanner? Children will like it,
> > > > but as an adult I feel insulted.
> > >
> > > I agree 100%.
> > >
> > > And it's not just that I feel insulted .. The confusion between
> > > complex abstractions such as home or settings .. and cartoon-style
> > > renderings of fragments of reality .. houses .. spanners .. doesn't
> > > strike me as a very effective way to encourage creativity and
> > > nurture intelligence in children and adults alike.
> >
> > Sheesh, the nerve of you all.
> >
> > Nothing like quashing someone who wants to help show people how to do
> > something.
> >
> > At least you could give kudos for showing the light as to how easy it
> > really is.
> >
> > And people bitch about my off-topic threads that aren't even close to
> > this kind of rudeness.
>
> It strikes me that you see it as rudeness. Having a different opinion
> is not the same as being rude, is it. And I felt that the makers of the
> original design were being 'quashed', as you call it, just as well.
> Kudos for both, as far as I'm concerned.
They stated they were insulted. Then go on to admonish his efforts. That
is RUDE. It is completely the wrong venue.
--
greg,
Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's
Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive
product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at
the playfield. -- Thane Walkup
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
Sjoerd Hiemstra wrote:
> But here is a question; why did you choose Rodent as a default when there
> are so many awesome icons are available on the gnome look site?
Many of us couldn't care less about "awesome". I care no more about how
"pretty" my computer screen is than I do about how "pretty" my air
compressor is.
cga2000 writes:
> The confusion between complex abstractions such as home or settings
> .. and cartoon-style renderings of fragments of reality .. houses
> .. spanners .. doesn't strike me as a very effective way to encourage
> creativity and nurture intelligence in children and adults alike.
They also don't work very well. Even when they are rendered with
sufficient detail to be recognizable the association between the chosen
rebuses and what they are supposed to symbolize is often opaque, and very
often the rebus is so tiny and lacking in detail as to be unrecognizable as
anything but an arbitrary symbol. For that we already have a system:
words.
--
John Hasler
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
eklektik napisał(a):
> Hello,
>
> I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this
> mailing list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I decided
> that I completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is complete and I
> wrote a short article in my blog about the redesign process. The article
> includes screenshots and original artworks. Do you like the redesign?
> You can read the article here.
>
> http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
>
> Jmak
> http://jozmak.googlepages.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now you can have a huge leap forward in email:* get the new Yahoo!
> Mail.*
>
>
Hi,
In beautifying the desktop You can also use Quingy (
http://qingy.sourceforge.net/ ) insted of gdm. It's more themable, I
think, than gdm and it's certenly much lighter than gdm. If You want to
have system monitor for cpu usage and other statystics then conky
(http://conky.sourceforge.net/) is Your best choise.
regards
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
Jakub Narojczyk wrote:
> eklektik napisał(a):
>> Hello,
>>
>> I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this
>> mailing list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I
>> decided that I completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is
>> complete and I wrote a short article in my blog about the redesign
>> process. The article includes screenshots and original artworks. Do
>> you like the redesign? You can read the article here.
>>
>> http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Jmak
>> http://jozmak.googlepages.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Now you can have a huge leap forward in email:* get the new Yahoo!
>> Mail.*
>>
>>
>
> Hi,
> In beautifying the desktop You can also use Quingy (
> http://qingy.sourceforge.net/ )
In Sid: apt-get install qingy
insted of gdm. It's more themable, I
> think, than gdm and it's certenly much lighter than gdm. If You want to
> have system monitor for cpu usage and other statystics then conky
> (http://conky.sourceforge.net/) is Your best choise.
apt-get install conky
>
> regards
>
>
--
Beautifying Debian Etch
On 4/6/07, eklektik wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I installed Etch recently, with the help of the good people of this mailing
> list. Now, it works perfectly, but I hate its look. So I decided that I
> completely redesign the desktop. Now the work is complete and I wrote a
> short article in my blog about the redesign process. The article includes
> screenshots and original artworks. Do you like the redesign? You can read
> the article here.
>
You've no idea how hard it was to make sure that we've common artwork
between the three major desktop environments and come up with
debian-moreblue. I like debian-moreblue more than your stuff, but I'm
of course biased.
The problem I see with your artwork is that the red swirl seems to be
something lost over the blue wallpaper, asking some artists that have
no idea about what Debian is give me the impression that
debian-moreblue was the right decision.
Closing, Debian is not and never will be about hate each other's work,
if you're satisfied with your own stuff, great! If you think that
almost all the users would enjoy that you're free to join us at
debian-desktop mailing list and submit your desktop-base (this is a
source package) theme, to be used in KDE, Xfce and GNOME, you really
need to keep it also in mind.
thanks,
-- stratus
http://stratusandtheswirl.blogspot.com
--