apt-get install synaptic / sources.list

Jochen Schulz wrote:
[snip]

> You might want to take a look at the Debian Reference to get an overview
> of Debian-related tools and concepts:
> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/reference

or you could install it to your system (so you can read it in the
absence of web access :-) :
aptitude install debian-reference-en

the -en is for the english version, there are also translations to other
languages available.

HTH,
Johannes

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somethin2cool wrote:
> When uninstalling an ap, dependencies which are no longer
> required should also be uninstalled.

Aptitude (a front-end to apt which, I believe, is installed
by default, and which has both a true commandline interface
(with switches more or less identical to APT's) and a
terminal-based user interface (if invoked with no
arguments)) does this by default. And if later you *want* to
keep some of the unused dependencies it's about to
uninstall, you can tell it to do that, as well.

> Just cos I think something is rubbish doesn't mean I have
> a bad attitude.

This is true, but a bad attitude does come out in the
presentation of that thought. Comments like "Apparently this
is too obvious to bother writing anywhere" when complaining
about a lack of documentation aren't productive--if taken at
face value, this particular example is just
self-deprecating. If the sarcasm that (I think) is
underlying it is also taken into consideration, it takes on
a dimension of rudeness thinly masked by self-deprecation.
Either way, just asking for help rather than sniping at
yourself and/or the documentation folks is more helpful and
probably takes less time to write, as well.

Amy

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somethin2cool wrote:
[snip]
>>>> It seems there are no perfect methods, but that apt works perfectly IF
>>>> you have all the repositories in there (although sucks at uninstalling).
>>>> Many many things I want are not in repositories for some reason, so I
>>>> have added the non-free repository which seems to have added to total of
>>>> 0 packages.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to add Sarge repos because Amaya isn't in the Etch ones, the
>>>> .deb moans about dependencies and synaptic, despite knowing what they
>>>> all are, has no option to just get them all (ha!).
>>>>
>>>> So can anyone tell me how to add a Sarge repo, and also the Etch one.
>>>> Yes they ought to be set up already but they aren't and the information
>>>> is not on any link in Google's first 5 pages. I have looked of debian
>>>> man, which tells me how to make one from scratch (which is awesome, but
>>>> not what i want this month), and it either doesn't say what the
>>>> repository addresses are or it is hidden really really well. Surely the
>>>> repository addresses should be published on the website, but no.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently this is to obvious to bother writing anywhere.

I was referring to the above paragraph (see below)

>
> If you try doing that, (mixing sarge into etch) you will likely break
> your system. You'd be better off just downloading the tarball and
> installing that.
>
> But one thing I need to tell you. You should change your attitude if
> you plan on getting more help. Perhaps you'd be better off with a
> different OS that does things more the way you prefer them instead of
> berating Debian for the way it does things.
>
> As for uninstalling, it is quite simple. In synaptic is it "Mark for
> Removal" or "Mark for Complete Removal" from the command line:
>
> apt-get remove foo
>
> or
>
> apt-get remove --purge foo.
>
> There are others, such as aptitude and wajig that also work.
>
> Joe
>
>>
>>

> What do you mean my attitude is fine. You must be reading it looking for
> a bad attitude (or too used to people with one, or have one yourself).
> Just cos I think something is rubbish doesn't mean I have a bad
> attitude. When uninstalling an ap, dependencies which are no longer
> required should also be uninstalled. And when the program can list all
> dependencies, and it can get all dependencies as a separate process, it
> should be able to get all missing dependencies to fix an application. If
> you disagree with that, then you are not part of the solution. Argue all
> you like, that's not what the list is for.

On most of your messages there is no problem (although using a real name
would be a good idea on this list). Rather than complaining that things
are "hidden" you could instead read the manuals that are available.
Now, I am not saying RTFM, although I certainly could. I have helped
answered a few of your questions, and I will continue to do so if things
remain civil.

As for your above complaint about removing dependecies, Aptitude does
that just fine, although you do need to use it exclusively for it to
track the packages effectively, so by mixing package managers you will
confuse aptitude and it will not work as it is intended.

As for this list and arguing, you're quite wrong. People argue on this
list all the time. You might notice that there are many different ways
to accomplish the same task and different people have different
preferences. You want to see and argument, just mention KDE vs. Gnome
or better, search the archives in which you will find many.

Now this is getting way off topic, and getting us nowhere, so there is
no use arguing over this. You stop complaining about the package
management and I'll stop telling you to change your attitude. Deal?

Joe

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Joe Hart wrote:

>
> I warn you again though, this is not a good idea. You'd be better off
> downloading the tarball from the developers' web site and compiling it
> that you would by trying to use apt to pull in a package from sarge.
> The packages there are old, and have very different dependencies.
>
> Joe
> - --

Thanks Joe.

Yeah I know. My argument would be that I'm tired of sepnding every
evening and weekend trying to install things. I *could* rant about that,
but instead I think I will log my experiences and turn it into a guide.

If i use a tarball, i have to wait for an error message, go get a
dependancy, try again, get another, try again... and this is fine by all
developers minds. To mine it is not. There is a problem.

Bet you'd all be shocked if I came up with the perfect solution ;-)

--

Joe Hart wrote:

>
> I warn you again though, this is not a good idea. You'd be better off
> downloading the tarball from the developers' web site and compiling it
> that you would by trying to use apt to pull in a package from sarge.
> The packages there are old, and have very different dependencies.

FWIW, it's not just a bad idea - it most likely won't work at all. It
looks like Amaya depends on C++ libraries (incompatible between sarge
and etch), so I predict that on issuing 'apt install amaya' all that
will happen is apt will say "yep, I can install amaya - just let me
remove half your system first!" Fortunately you will be given to
opportunity to say "no" ;-)

You might want to give the unstable version a try. The bug reports I've
read (#414380 and #357439) suggest that not everyone is affected by the
issue Andrew refers to.

Dave.

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On Sat, Apr 28, 2007 at 10:00:09PM +0100, somethin2cool wrote:
> Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>
> >>
> >No, it isn't too obvious to bother writing anywhere: it may be obvious
> >to many that some users don't bother _READING_ anywhere.
> >Google is your friend, as is browsing the archives of the mailing list.
> >
> >Hope this helps,
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >
> Andrew I'm sure you get a lot of threads where people haven't bothered
> looking. But i did notice you linked to www.debian.org. Well I'm sure
> it's there somewhere. As for Google, I read every link for 6 pages and
> nothing was relevant.
>

Try

apt-get sources list debian format

into google: first hit is APT Howto, second is the Debian tutorial, both
on www.debian.org or its mirrors.

OR

man apt-get
OR

man aptitude

(which points you to man 8 apt-get) that points to sources.list man page
then:
man 5 sources.list

gives you _exactly_ the format.

> I am trying to point out that this is a problem. Why not have a look
> yourself, without cheeting by searching for the strings you already have
> (assume you don't know the format)
>
> so search for "debian repository list" or "official debian repositories"
> be imaginative and post back if you find a keyword which brings up
> something useful.
>
> The problem, is that the net is littered with people asking and not
> getting responses. Hiding any older, useful information completely.
>

Look in the archives for the debian-user mailing list: there are
regular queries about "apt-get doesn't work / there's something wrong
with my sources.list" - usually, it turns out that someone has made
a typo in copying a line or whatever - we can all do it - but, almost
invariably, someone will post a correct set of sources.list entries as
part of the reply.

Similarly with "mirror $foo isn't working at the moment, anybody got a
valid set of entries in $country that they'd care to share"?

> If anybody else dare think that I have not tried, why not just try
> yourself rather than making assumptions. this list is so presumptious!
>

Do you think I _don't_ try when these questions come up? Stop being so
presumptuous yourself :) Normally, my first response is to Google likely
keywords or search the archives myself to reassure myself that the
information is readily accessible out there.

Only some readers of this list and posters to the list assume an
inordinately high level of knowledge: most expect you to at least
try to problem solve/show you have researched the problem and it
is sometimes helpful to show exactly what you have done.

So, for a contrived example, "My webcam doesn't work in Debian. Debian
suxx" is not a useful comment.

"I have a Logitech QuickCam [model]. The main machine is an AMD64,
running Debian 4.0 with the stock kernel 2.6.18. I've installed what I
believe to be the correct sources and compiled an appropriate module.
[Steps I took]. Video card is an Nvidia - using the stock nv
driver from the Debian x.org packaging.

Trying to use it with GNOME and Ekiga, it gives me a green screen. Has
anybody else experienced similar problems" is very good.

"I've got a Logitech QuickCam model $foo. I've tried to get it running
under Debian on an AMD64 machine with an Nvidia card but I'm having
problems using it as a web cam. Can someone help/point me to a HOWTO?
Prepared to give more details as required."

is also useful _if_ you're prepared to answer questions to solve the
problem and give feedback with the eventual solution at the end of the
thread. Someone else may be searching Google for similar problems - and
you build up the documentation that's missing.
(Something like "Logitech QuickCam model $foo webcam problem [SOLVED] as
a mail subject is very useful here.)

Wikipedia - Debian - package management system - APT would have got you
there just as well.

Andy

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